tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post7076547405014423268..comments2022-11-13T09:38:58.195-05:00Comments on Raining Acorns: Just Some Poems: Du Fu in TranslationSusan Scheid (Raining Acorns)http://www.blogger.com/profile/02827286681242730183noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-28371878907902596202012-02-24T18:59:30.321-05:002012-02-24T18:59:30.321-05:00I find this earlier Hinton translation of the poem...I find this earlier Hinton translation of the poem slightly easier on the ear than the one featured in Classical Chinese Poetry:<br /><br />INSCRIBED ON A WALL AT CHANG’S HERMITAGE<br /><br />In spring mountains, alone, I set out to find you.<br />Axe strokes crack—crack and quit. Silence doubles.<br /><br />I pass snow and ice lingering along cold streams,then,<br />Late light wavering at Stone Gate, enter these woods.<br /><br />Deer graze here each morning, for you harm nothing.<br />And because you want nothing, auras of silver and gold<br /><br />Grace nights. Facing you on a whim in bottomless dark, the way<br />here lost—I feel it drifting, this whole empty boat.MrMezuskuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03378417191899921422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-43996545624757729162012-02-24T18:56:20.524-05:002012-02-24T18:56:20.524-05:00Here's an earlier, subtly different, Hinton tr...Here's an earlier, subtly different, Hinton translation of the poem:<br /><br />INSCRIBED ON THE WALL AT CHANG’S HERMITAGE<br /><br />In spring mountains, alone, I set out to find you.<br />Axe strokes crack—crack and quit. Silence doubles.<br /><br />I pass snow and ice lingering along cold streams,then,<br />Late light wavering at Stone Gate, enter these woods.<br /><br />Deer graze here each morning, for you harm nothing.<br />And because you want nothing, auras of silver and gold<br /><br />Grace nights. Facing you on a whim in bottomless dark, the way<br />Here lost—I feel it drifting, this whole empty boat.<br /><br />I think I prefer the third stanza of this version and the second stanza of the 'Classical Chinese Poetry' version.<br /><br />(from The Selected Poems of Tu Fu, p.4)MrMezuskuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03378417191899921422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-25420044964912524592011-04-22T22:10:31.332-04:002011-04-22T22:10:31.332-04:00Hilary: Hey, whenever you choose to comment, it&#...Hilary: Hey, whenever you choose to comment, it's nice of you to stop by!<br /><br />Suze: Welcome to RA. So glad you enjoyed the post!Susan Scheid (Raining Acorns)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02827286681242730183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-59177344302005501792011-04-21T23:22:07.834-04:002011-04-21T23:22:07.834-04:00I am so happy to have stumbled on this beautiful p...I am so happy to have stumbled on this beautiful post. I feel a bit like my 'tongue' has been snatched away as I try to imagine how to comment intelligently on what you have done. Reading three separate translations was a joy and it would seem Friko is right: the very act of translating is a poem in and of itself.<br /><br />Thank you for this.Suzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07908805179119217608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-1440626971250907422011-04-21T12:13:02.579-04:002011-04-21T12:13:02.579-04:00Hi Raining Acorns .. I had to wait for the intelli...Hi Raining Acorns .. I had to wait for the intelligentsia to comment .. and now I've learnt a lot .. the commenters know their stuff .. and that's great for you .. and me!!<br /><br />Thank you - interesting read .. I preferred the first two poems .. cheers HilaryHilary Melton-Butcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17596532480645510678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-39525284900803750502011-04-20T22:19:49.103-04:002011-04-20T22:19:49.103-04:00To all of you: Thank you for the fascinating comme...To all of you: Thank you for the fascinating comments, which merit a post of their own.<br /><br />Friko and Britta: it’s a real privilege to get the thoughts of both of you, who are translators and know what the limitations are and what it takes to even come close to getting it right.<br /><br />Mark: In Hinton’s book, he gives an example of a poem in its Chinese characters, with a literal transcription beneath each, then offers his own interpretation. I would love to see the Chinese characters and literal transcription for the poem I found in all three books.<br /><br />cybersr: Indeed Charles Simic is an interesting fellow, and I am sure you noted that he lived in Chicago and even attended U of Chicago for a time.<br /><br />Carol-Ann: Interesting indeed to think about the Bible in this regard.<br /><br />WOS: I love your statement, “It is almost as if the translator has to give us the essence of the poem.” When looking back at what Friko and Britta have written, this seems to me exactly right.<br /><br />I was interested, too, in the choices of “favorite” translation. I was predisposed toward Rexroth’s version, and I think it does still win out for me, but as I read and re-read, I found myself migrating back and forth from one to another. I liked Hinton’s compression more than I thought I would (“silence doubles” was a phrasing I particularly admired). Young did a beautifully fluid job as well, though I found the use of “hobnob” jarring.<br /><br />Translation is indeed an art all of its own, the result of which perhaps can only be, as Ned Rorem said of the musical setting of a poem, not the poem itself, but “a third thing.” As Anne Carson observed, “Human words have no main switch.” Yet there is much to savor: “all those little kidnaps in the dark.”Susan Scheid (Raining Acorns)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02827286681242730183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-35216533581557984892011-04-19T16:43:20.184-04:002011-04-19T16:43:20.184-04:00Wow, what an interesting idea, to show three diffe...Wow, what an interesting idea, to show three different translations of the same poem. It is doubly interesting because they are translations of an asian language to English. Translation from one Latin based or Romance language to another seems perilous enough, but from a character-driven language to English seems near impossible.<br /><br />In fact, "translation" seems the wrong word to use (no pun intended!). It is almost as if the translator has to give us the essence of the poem. "Translate" implies a dry, academic transfer of words. But in a poem, the translator needs to read, embrace, inhale the work, and then produce a reasonable work in the other language.<br /><br />@C-A: I agree with your comment regarding the Bible. I do think many seminarians have to learn Hebrew and Greek so as to read it in its original forms. And how many disagreements and arguments have been had due to differing interpretations of ancient texts in today's prose?? Very sad.Wide Open Spaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04573357176617683341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-59888784354097897312011-04-19T13:13:49.652-04:002011-04-19T13:13:49.652-04:00I really liked David Hinton's version of the p...I really liked David Hinton's version of the poem. It's so interesting to see how each translator used poetic license here. <br /><br />This makes me think of the books of the Bible translated over the centuries - who knows how the original versions actually read?Carol-Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07390714553925368818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-8961057860064729532011-04-18T17:13:00.302-04:002011-04-18T17:13:00.302-04:00This is a charming post and I like Charles Simic. ...This is a charming post and I like Charles Simic. Thanks for the introduction.cybersrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-91958827104179865752011-04-18T15:00:14.852-04:002011-04-18T15:00:14.852-04:00Dear Raining Acorns,
thank you for that very inte...Dear Raining Acorns, <br />thank you for that very interesting post! As you might know I translate literature (but not poems, and of course always from English to German). The publishers in general pay very little for that job (I have another one that brings in the money, and so I can do translating as a hobby - and take my time. A translator who has to live on the money he earns translating - well, I feel sorry for him). Translation is much more than bringing one word from a language accurately into another. I say that a good translator must be a poet. So the translation by Dorothea Bjelvenstam of "The Moomin Stories" into German is in my eyes much better than the more exact one of Brigitte Kicherer. But : Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder - I love the David Hinton translation here moret, but that is a personal decision, you cannot measure it. <br />In Germany we have now a study "Literary translation" - very interesting.Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10688373434576442657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-33718978482853413132011-04-18T13:42:47.922-04:002011-04-18T13:42:47.922-04:00This is why I despair at ever really knowing what ...This is why I despair at ever really knowing what a poet is really saying unless she has said it in English, the only language, I should be embarrassed to say, I am fluent in. <br /><br />I think a translator should be more concerned with getting a clear transcription than in stylistic fluency in the language it is translated into. This will probably result in a weak poem, but the alternative will certainly be primarily an expression of the translator's subjective interpretation.<br /><br />Of the 3 versions above, 1 and 3 read more fluently to me, but I have no way of knowing which of the 3 is most accurate.Mark Kerstetterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13307987573435067415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5574060146103839230.post-89927347716272640622011-04-18T06:16:57.563-04:002011-04-18T06:16:57.563-04:00Translating poetry can only be done by a poet. Eve...Translating poetry can only be done by a poet. Even then the poet will be of his own time and use words which belong in his own time.<br />To do the poet to be translated justice the translator has to immerse himself not only in the poem but also the culture, the life, the literary language, the history of the original poet.<br /><br />For years I have been searching for translations of poems from German into English and vice versa, without great success. There is always something lacking.<br /><br />I like Rexroth's version best of the three.Frikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04277167831642088694noreply@blogger.com